Next oil change comming

1 x Valvoline SynPower 5W-40 (VW 502) = 200 NIS ($52)
3 x Honda ATF = 277 NIS ($72)
1 x Pampers Giant Box = 70 NIS ($18)

50,100 km | 3Y 6M

45K Service

It's not exactly 45K service, because I did brake pads and fluid change while back (will post later) - saved a lot of money.
So, all that official Honda did it's oil change for 413 NIS ($111), oil not included.

Oil for this time I gave is Mobil 1 0W-30.

43,139 km | 2Y 10M

Mobil 1 0W-40

As I got opportunity and access to fresh Mobil 1 oils for 50 NIS ($14) per 1 galon (0.946 L), I decided to try it.

This is first one 0W-40.

35,700 km | 2Y 4M

30K Service

Time for the periodical service.

This time I was happy to check how Top Car in Netanya works, Honda dealer that sold me my Civic.

I set an appointment one day before to 7:30 in the morning.

But here is a preface to my service :-)

About half a year ago I heard from Honda people that they stopped using original Honda oil and switched to Paz oils (Paz Lubricants and Chemicals). I guess one manager from Honda meet another manager from Paz and they decide to make money drinking coffee at one of Paz roadside retail place :-) I don't want this shit to my car I don't want an oil from their bloody barrel.

So... at 7:00 when all parts stores opens, I called to dealership to ask what oil should I bring with me.

- Me: Hi, I got service at 7:30 for Civic, what oil I need to buy?

- Honda: Hello. What do you mean?

- I don't want Paz oil, I want to bring oil with me. What oil spec is recommended?

- What?

- Yes. So, what oil API spec, SAE?

- No, we use our oil.

- Oh common, bullshit. I can use any approved commercial oil in MY car.

call transferred to warehouse man

- Hi, what oil Honda Civic needs?

- We use 5W-40.

- Cool, what API index? SL, SM, SN?

- What is this?

- (fuck) It's oil standards!

- I don't know. Call me in 1 hour...

Great!

From our last meeting at Honda I remember this: you can use any Honda oil or API SM and above.

5W-30, 5W-40 both ok.

So I bought best Honda oil I found in this time window.

Honda 5W-30, API SN. I know from tests, it performs good. 40 NIS ($10) per 1 u.s. quart.

But I came to Honda already after my time around 8:00 and I should wait until 10:00 if I want service today. We rescheduled to next morning same time.

I drove to work and meanwhile called to Honda support line to ask what the fucking oil I should buy?

- Me: Hello. I gonna to service 30K for my Civic and I want to know which oil to buy, can you help me?

- Honda: Yes, one moment please. You should by Honda oil.

- But there is no more Honda oils in Israel at all dealerships!

- No, you should use only original Honda oils.

- But i try to tell you that Honda not selling Honda oil anymore thus it's impossible to buy or order Honda's oil in dealership at service!

- That's not true. Where are you from?

- Netanya.

- Ok... Wait a second I will call to your garage Top Car...

Facepalm... She gonna talk to them just after I talked to them about oils and they have nothing but Paz oil. (By the way, if you want to know what is Paz oil - good luck, there is no official spec of "Paz Oil" on internet, probably only authorised personal that blend this olive oil know what is it ;-)

- Hey, Alexey, I just talked to Ilan and they use 5W-40.

- But I already bought Honda oil 5W-30, is it ok? Owner's manual says it's ok.

- I don't know, we use 5W-40 oils.

- Ok, I can change it back. But what oil I should by, what standard SM, SN?

- I don't know...

It's so funny. I probably one of few people that care about our cars and we have to fight with their fucking system of "do what we told you to do".

I went back and changed for Liqui Moly as it was second best choice (Valvoline SynPower was but it was on shelf for 2 years). Anyway, I was looking for chance to test this oil as I got some positive responses about it. 190 NIS ($48) for 5 liters.

It's 5W-40 and API SN.

So I bring it next day and everything was cool before...

I asked that I don't need to replace air filter, because I got them and it's 3 min to do that yourself.

And second, I showed them discount coupon I got from them to my postbox :-)

Ilan told that they do not use them, but after I showed that it from their garage - he agreed...

Final receipt is 267 NIS ($68) for:

1. oil filter

2. washer

3. labor

4. they marked here that I used my oil and no need air filter replacement.

A, and they also swapped wheels front-back.

After 30 km I got check tires alert again  :-)

29,970 km | 1Y 10 M

Oil filter

Let's review available oil filters on market.

In Israel, Honda dealers use the following filter:
Honda 15400-RBA-F01 manufactured by purflux in France.

It costs about 120 NIS ($33) at dealershop. Real price is $7.5 - 4 times lower... as always in Israel.
From my information, it more suitable to Honda Accord Tourer, but whatever it can be used on Civics too.
Because... if we will take original Purflux LS 350 with price of only $4.4 we will see that covers almost all Honda models including Civic Mk9 with 1.8 i-VTEC [R18Z4] and more: ACURA, HONDA, INFINITI, ISUZU, LOTUS, MAZDA, MITSUBISHI, OPEL, ROVER, SUBARU, TOYOTA, ZASTAVA.

 

Additional info: weight = 242 g (from Exist.ru specs)

Okay. But I got recommended filter for Mk9 Civic and we will compare it with another one for US market (sorry, that is what I got):
Honda 15400-RTA-003 - $7.8 - made in Japan by Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Honda 15400-PLM-A01 - $6.7 - made in USA by Filtech INC.

15400-RTA-003 (left) and 15400-PLM-A01 (right)

15400-RTA-003 (left) and 15400-PLM-A01 (right)

15400-RTA-003 bottom

15400-PLM-A01 bottom

15400-RTA-003 inside net

15400-PLM-A01 inside net

15400-RTA-003 (left) and 15400-PLM-A01 (right)

15400-RTA-003 (left) and 15400-PLM-A01 (right)

15400-RTA-003 screw-thread

15400-PLM-A01 screw-thread

15400-RTA-003 (left) and 15400-PLM-A01 (right) screw-thread

For compare 15400-RTA-003 and 15400-RBA-F01 (and 15400-PR3-014) please view post (in Russian) that I found on web http://www.drive2.ru/l/947567/. Below images from there.

Bonus.
If you know what Type R is, so your oil filter can be 15400-PLC-004 with price tag of  $6.0.

17,800 km | 0Y 12M

15K service

First service I did at Erez Pratiot in Haifa for few reasons: I was there in that day and I don't want to spent a cent for Honda in Netanya, only by emergency maybe.

Labor: 263.38 NIS, almost 0.9 hour by reglament.
Parts:
1. 15400-RBA-F01 Oil filter: 117.8 NIS
2. 94109-14000 Washer: 3.98 NIS
3. 08232-P99G-4LHE - oil Honda HFS 5W-40, 4L: 244.99 NIS

Total: -630 NIS. If you want generic oil from barrel, it should be 580 NIS but I did not recommend it.

They also did general checks of all systems.

And don't forget stamp in car book!

Overall impression - good, but expensive.
I got from Russia:
1. Oil filters 15400-PLM-A01 (made in USA) and 15400-RTA-003 (made in Japan) for $7 each
2. Washers 94109-14000: $0.5

Also, after technician finished work, he passes car to master that also checks oil level. And as I asked do not fill all 4 liters, they added a note in the paper. And said that in Civics they fill to more than maximum level for "some" reason.

We also swapped front and rear tires. While driving from Haifa back home I got warning. So I stopped the car on shoulder and went out to check all 4 tires. Nothing was wrong.

Strange that it detected that not right after change but when I drove about 30 km. Not reliable system as it was on VAG cars, as I think. Reinitialise system and you good to go.

15,191 km | 0Y 11M

Recommended oil problem

When you open owner's manual that Israel importer gave us, you will see the following recommendations (gasoline/petrol engines)

Lets translate this photo to English:
1. Models with service reminder
- Honda Genuine oil, ACEA A3/B3 A5/B5 and above. Viscosity 5W-30, 0W-30, 0W-20, 10W-30.
2. European models without service reminder
- Honda Genuine oil, ACEA A1/B1 A5/B5 A3/B3 and above. Viscosity 0W-30, 0W-20, 10W-30, 5W-30.
3. Other than European models without service reminder
- Honda Genuine oil
- API SM and above. Viscosity 0W-40, 0W-30, 10W-40, 10W-30, 5W-40, 5W-30

Great. Now, when you call to official service garages you will find that they offer you 2 options: Paz oil from barrel or Honda's HFS 5W-40.

Honda HFS has API SL approval and viscosity index 5W40... that is not feet in any of above recommendations.
I called to more than 10 garages in central area. Everyone has this oil and nothing more. They told "this is what you need" and "this is what we have from importer" and "I don't know what standard is it, it's 5W-40". You can check it, choose any garage and call.
The only garage that have another option was in Herzliya that offer als CHAMPION NEW ENERGY 5W40 that actually holds API SN and that means it's even newer than SM standard.

My friend with new Civic but manual gearbox called and wrote to Israeli importer about that issue. They told that owner's manual has an error and API SL is what you need bla bla bla. If you have an error, tell us all! You don't need to print new manuals for that, just put sticker on top of error with new instructions.

SL oils was recommended to previous Civics 8th generation. Looks like they sold some old shit that remains in strages OR some strange things happening! Yummy!

So we bombed U.K. Honda Customer's Service representatives with questions, because new hatchbacks come from their manufacturings.
They are funny. They refer us to Israel dealership.

And for every response they add at the end "some not helping answer bla bla bla dealership, whose fully trained technicians are best placed to inspect your vehicle and provide any advice and/or technical assistance."

Ok, this is dead end. We stop talking with them and wrote to UK garages that can be found on "find a showroom" page.
I wrote to Chiswick Honda, top UK Honda seller (as also support confirmed later). And got great service from their personnel.

First of all, they use Castrol MP 5W-30. It has API SN approval, newest. And of course not older SL.

The guy was so kind, he put bottle on the scanner and sent me back sticker!

Click to zoom

So to remind you. In UK they use newer recommended SN and in Israel they use old, not recommended SL.
Interesting? May UK have another recommendations even that cars and engines were built on same plant?

I can't find UK's owner's manual on Internet and Israel importer said you need to buy and order it from UK or whatever. And... I asked if he can scan oil pages for me. I didn't expected that he will do that, but he did! :-)
You can download source from here. Pictures attached below

As we see from last screen, we need API SM, confirmed.

I asked about service reminders. He said that, as far as he knows, Civics doesn't have reminders, only Honda Jazz has. Also Erez garage (Haifa) confirmed that Civic has no reminder.

This is another question for tomorrow's meeting with Honda's local representatives.

Update (2013-10-21)
After meeting with Honda's reps, oil problem explained this way. You can use oils that:
- Or ANY genuine Honda oil (that's why API SL is ok)
- Or any commercial available oil with API SM and newer and matching recommended viscosity.

You can bring your own oil to service but there is a big chance that you will get warranty issues if something happened and it was not oil from official garage.

Update (2013-10-24)
Honda HFS oil come from Europe to Israel. More precisely - Belgium.
TotalElf is blending them. MSDS of Honda oils.

And this also helpful link - TotalElf MSDS for OEM oils. Total do that for Ford, GM, Nissan and Mazda too.

5,100 km | 0Y 4M