My friend recently upgraded his SEAT Ibiza Cupra to SEAT Leon Cupra R Mk2 and started blogging too.
Happy to introduce you our blog's friend Alexander Kantor and his http://leon-cupra.blogspot.co.il/.
What is Cupra R? Oh dear :-) That's 265 horse power @6000 RPM and 350 Nm @2500-5200 RPM in stock from 2.0L TSI engine. And it can be tuned very easily to get more. He already upgraded to APR Stage I. When I kickdown on Civic he is already finished - that's what this mean :-(
When I was on meeting with Honda (Meir) people, I've ordered touch-up pencil for my color - Urban Titanium (code YR-578M).
Cost to me 115 ILS (~$30) to buy from official garage.
Next day I was able to get it.
Made in Germany.
On internet you can get it for about half price but need to find offers with delivery, so I went and bought it here locally.
How to use?
P. S.
If you don't know what color do you need to order, open driver's door and look for this label at bottom.
Color is second line on right section - YR578M mine.
The meeting with Honda Israel (Meir) representatives was done. People attended:
1. Me, the Cockroach Fighter
2. Ilan Cohen (אילן כהן) - Top Car Netanya's garage manager (Honda's official dealer and service)
3. Norit Mor (נורית מור) - Meir's customer's service manager
4. Lior Cohen (ליאור כהן) - Meir's Director of Technical Support
5. My friend Grigory. He came from Haifa with new Honda Civic Comfort manual transmission.
Both Norit and Lior are major figures in Meir organization chart that related to customers. This is a slide from Meir conference presentation Feb 2013 that I found in Google, download full preso here.
To make it short, here are bullets I learned from this meeting:
1. Lior said that this installation is bad and they fixed it from now on.
2. Norit said that they did their "homework" about my complain. Still no idea what this means.
3. Parking installation was made by some new technician that was new to the job.
3. Honda will not call new car's owners to fix this incomplete installation, so it's on you guys.
4. Norit and Lior are not sure that cockroaches got into the car from hole in parking sensors cap, so no compensation will be for me. They think sure that cockroaches came into the car with my cloth or open doors.
5. Norit said because it's not installation issue but I suffered from cockroaches, she can offer me first service for free at Honda garage (equals to about 500 ILS for end customer, less for company).
6. Norit said that I should try to find another parking spot.
7. Ilan thought I found only few dead cockroaches that pictured and uploaded to prev post.
8. I asked for compensation of extermination that helped me partially to stop cockroaches around my car and free 3 services for my new Honda. That is a minimum. And we were expecting that Honda will call new owners to bring them to nearest to them garage to seal the hole in plastic. When I expressed my terms, Norit said that she didn't came here for negotiation, if I don't want one free service I will get nothing.
9. Norit mentioned that it is the first case with cockroaches in Honda. For me too :-)
9. Ilan before worked with Alpha Romeos and was specialized in carburetors, that great bold plus for him as professional.
Overall satisfaction from meeting: it was very interesting and positive mostly because of Lior and Ilan. Norit was totally aggressive.
What I did not understand is why did they call meeting if that is not Honda fail as they say and all talk is about 500 ILS and only because I gone through this. If it worth working hours of 4 people? First free service you can ask when you buy a new car if you push on sale agent.
The facts I have:
- For two years on same parking from 3 my cars only Honda was approached by cockroaches.
- I washed my Skoda Fabia every week. At least for an hour back lid was open towards cockroaches place. Never saw roaches or any insects because of that.
- Mazda 3 that I took after I sold Fabia had no cockroaches for 1.5 month on same place.
- Same cockroaches are around all our 2 buildings that mean 24 cars can be approached by them. I will check with neighbours, but as far as I know, no complains were made. Cars parking around my car have no issue except of ants. That I haven't too in Fabia or Mazda.
- No garbage or sewerage located near to my car.
- Dead and life bodies of cockroaches was found mostly in trunk. Limited winners were able to get to dashboard and front seats, doors.
- There is no other way to get into the trunk beside parking sensor hole or air ventilation. Latter was inspected and I found it perfectly closed as it should be by design. Passengers doors are double sealed with rubber and back lid have one rubber around.
- Next to my car I got neighbour that works in Eldan car rental company. He changes his working car about once a month. I will check if he ever experienced this with any of his cars.
- Also I almost the one that park a car backwards, meaning front of the car toward exit, but others that park opposite need to drive first backwards in a morning to get out of parking.
I will continue to bring attention to this accident as I think that's totally Honda's fail. But in other ways.
Update (2013-10-24)
Yesterday Norit made official summary of our meeting and today at 8:57 she scanned it and sent to my email at 9:07 (hours of course not important).
I will disassemble the trunk plastic again just for picturing that plastic one more time but now with a scale to see, may be I'm wrong, may be the hole is just "few millimeters".
Update (2013-10-25)
Got today this paper "from a friend" :-)
If Honda (Meir) central located in Rishon LeZion where all cars should be prepared... that is 12 km away from that place. So new cars should be transported by auto transport broker to there. Looks expensive.
Ok, that makes sense. On Honda's site them listed as official garage but a little different - Tet Dalet Reish - Maarechet Azaka VeShema (ת.ד.ר – מע' אזעקה ושמע).
I can't find pictures of open garage on GMaps. But Israeli sites do have them. Yes, I see Honda Accord.
And that is probably not the only place for installs. If Honda sells about 550 cars per month (September 2013 data) that's roughly 18 cars per day, one garage will not handle it.
When you open owner's manual that Israel importer gave us, you will see the following recommendations (gasoline/petrol engines)
Lets translate this photo to English:
1. Models with service reminder
- Honda Genuine oil, ACEA A3/B3 A5/B5 and above. Viscosity 5W-30, 0W-30, 0W-20, 10W-30.
2. European models without service reminder
- Honda Genuine oil, ACEA A1/B1 A5/B5 A3/B3 and above. Viscosity 0W-30, 0W-20, 10W-30, 5W-30.
3. Other than European models without service reminder
- Honda Genuine oil
- API SM and above. Viscosity 0W-40, 0W-30, 10W-40, 10W-30, 5W-40, 5W-30
Great. Now, when you call to official service garages you will find that they offer you 2 options: Paz oil from barrel or Honda's HFS 5W-40.
Honda HFS has API SL approval and viscosity index 5W40... that is not feet in any of above recommendations.
I called to more than 10 garages in central area. Everyone has this oil and nothing more. They told "this is what you need" and "this is what we have from importer" and "I don't know what standard is it, it's 5W-40". You can check it, choose any garage and call.
The only garage that have another option was in Herzliya that offer als CHAMPION NEW ENERGY 5W40 that actually holds API SN and that means it's even newer than SM standard.
My friend with new Civic but manual gearbox called and wrote to Israeli importer about that issue. They told that owner's manual has an error and API SL is what you need bla bla bla. If you have an error, tell us all! You don't need to print new manuals for that, just put sticker on top of error with new instructions.
SL oils was recommended to previous Civics 8th generation. Looks like they sold some old shit that remains in strages OR some strange things happening! Yummy!
So we bombed U.K. Honda Customer's Service representatives with questions, because new hatchbacks come from their manufacturings.
They are funny. They refer us to Israel dealership.
And for every response they add at the end "some not helping answer bla bla bla dealership, whose fully trained technicians are best placed to inspect your vehicle and provide any advice and/or technical assistance."
Ok, this is dead end. We stop talking with them and wrote to UK garages that can be found on "find a showroom" page.
I wrote to Chiswick Honda, top UK Honda seller (as also support confirmed later). And got great service from their personnel.
First of all, they use Castrol MP 5W-30. It has API SN approval, newest. And of course not older SL.
The guy was so kind, he put bottle on the scanner and sent me back sticker!
Click to zoom
So to remind you. In UK they use newer recommended SN and in Israel they use old, not recommended SL.
Interesting? May UK have another recommendations even that cars and engines were built on same plant?
I can't find UK's owner's manual on Internet and Israel importer said you need to buy and order it from UK or whatever. And... I asked if he can scan oil pages for me. I didn't expected that he will do that, but he did! :-)
You can download source from here. Pictures attached below
As we see from last screen, we need API SM, confirmed.
I asked about service reminders. He said that, as far as he knows, Civics doesn't have reminders, only Honda Jazz has. Also Erez garage (Haifa) confirmed that Civic has no reminder.
This is another question for tomorrow's meeting with Honda's local representatives.
Update (2013-10-21) After meeting with Honda's reps, oil problem explained this way. You can use oils that:
- Or ANY genuine Honda oil (that's why API SL is ok)
- Or any commercial available oil with API SM and newer and matching recommended viscosity.
You can bring your own oil to service but there is a big chance that you will get warranty issues if something happened and it was not oil from official garage.
Update (2013-10-24)
Honda HFS oil come from Europe to Israel. More precisely - Belgium.
TotalElf is blending them. MSDS of Honda oils.
And this also helpful link - TotalElf MSDS for OEM oils. Total do that for Ford, GM, Nissan and Mazda too.
Update (2013-10-14)
Got a call from Meir (Honda). Meeting is scheduled at 12:00 on 17th of Oct at Top Car, Netanya.
With Director of Customer's Service and Garage Director.
Yesterday I was in Rishon LeZion as I looked for other Civic's owners to check if they have same potential issue or it just me. It was Honda Civic 5D Sport, the owner got it few month ago. Same installation. I promised to fix it with sealant but forgot it at home. Lucky me there was ACE store nearby to where I ran and bought it.
This is a story that made me feel bad about choice I made for new Honda Civic. I kept it until I solved it.
Where should I start...
It's not actually Honda's fail, but it's Israel branch.
It was alive, not like on above photo, here I changed mats and did extermination inside a car.
That didn't scared me too much, I thought it was accidental one.
The second one... I caught in the trunk. He was faster, but I killed it too.
Third I saw when I ran out of first tank of fuel that was "gifted" from Honda. When I stopped at gas station, opened fuel cap and saw him, he was scary and flew away. Yepp, they can fly...
I actually never saw such small cockroaches here in Israel. At least I don't remember when. Usually we got big ones, matches box size - looks like American version, see here and here if very interested. Buaaaaa...
There were days when I didn't saw them, and days when I got 2-3 killed before I can drive.
This one was running on dashboard when I drove at night. I was trying to kill him while driving (before that I stopped to kill another one) but he ran inside dashboard somewhere and next day I found him dead in glovebox.
So dramatic. Hope he died fast.
After several days of fighting I decided to check what is going on at rear seats and trunk.
I told about my problem to few people, we laughed together. One of them suggested to use K2000 spray for extermination. Most popular K300 we have in Israel is bad choice for that, it smells and very toxic for such closed spaces. K2000 is more improved, no smell but dangerous if used wrong (see label for instructions).
29 ILS (~$10) in supermarket not a big deal.
While opening stuff, I killed few again. I looked under rear seats.
This is was very very suspicious for me. Like egg at first look. But not. Feels like tiny dots on paint. Probably after color processing something was scattered on frame. Not so critical, but looks bad dear, Honda!
I sprayed everywhere under seats and surroundings.
Also in trunk.
For day or two it was working, donno how.
But than again!
We found them on floor, ceiling, seats, people few times. It was complicated by the fact that my wife's sister with her 3 years old daughter visited us for 3 weeks and we traveled a lot.
It was not fun at all. New car, 140K Israeli fucking shekels. WHERE ARE THEY COME FROM, F-F-F-FUUCK!
I blamed Honda. I did nothing to get them inside, I was sure. I never experienced such pleasure with fucking insects in my life for more almost 10 different cars. Never fucking ever!
I called to Honda, to Roman Yablokov that signed me at Top Car, Netanya.
Image source: public profile at Odnoklassniki.ru
Dialogue (simplified):
(A) - Hey, Roman. That's Alexey with new Civic.
(R) - How is going?
(A) - I got one problem... I don't know why, but... I got cockroaches in my car.
(R) - What? Ha-ha-ha... Cockroaches? Hey, he got cockroaches in the car... Hahaha (another haha in a background).
(A) - Not funny, Roman. I got it since first week of owning it.
(R) - Go buy K300 and spray there. You probably eat and drink inside.
(A) - No, I'm very careful with food in my cars.What should I do? I think that's some Honda fault.
(R) - I don't know, spray around.
(A) - Great...
On other day I called to extermination service (I used for home servicing) hoping they can advise or do something. And turns out that doable. But all your car will be in special powder and you should clean it after process. I said I will think.
As we talked, he explained that this usually happens with cars that works in food business, or you tramp somebody working junk yard, food servicing, etc. Also if you park your car near garbage.
Few days later (still fighting with them, 2-3 each drive) when I parked at home I noticed that
I forgot to tell. Most of the cockroaches I was found at rear part of the car, seats, trunk (favorite!). It was obvious to look there. I even made a spreadsheet in Google Docs to write: where, how much and when to build a map :-) fucking insects.
So, if you saw above video, you got a clue.
Behind my parking spot a lot of leaves, bushes. I accidentally step into them and saw few roaches ran away. That's it!
I took broom and cleaned all my parking spot and 2 around my car. My neighbor was coming after sports training, saw me and helped me. He saw them too, that's not me insane :-)
Next day (or after one) I was expecting extermination on parking spot. Early in the morning. I was need to destroy the source to continue.
For 200 ILS he covered my parking with special agents. But said it will remain only until rain season that usually comes after October.
That all reduced amount of insects I found after that.
And few days later on weekend I started digging inside new fucking Honda Civic.
And guess what? Recognize trunk? :-)
But first things first.
I removed spare wheel, all trims from back, left and right.
It should be informative post too, so I pictured a lot for part numbers and position of latches.
Right trunk cover
Left trim
Back cover.
The first place to look is air escape shutter. When you close all doors in a car you create pressure. Air should escape somehow leaving pressure at same level otherwise you will feel it. So in every car there is a shutter for that. In Honda Civic it's in trunk, look at the left besides jack and warning triangle, just after them. You don't need to dissemble all trims to find them. Take some light and check there.
There are 3 light rubber that opens when air escapes. Cockroach can't open them to get inside, they are heavy for them. I asked them :-) Looking next...
By the way, it's important to know that all car should be sealed. It must to, unless... keep reading, almost end.
While disassembling I found another two dead roaches in the coners. Did you see him? So cute... Tsss....
Before we get into the problem, here are shots of bare frame. You can see ground points, other stuff.
Rear left
Rear left seat, top view. Probably shock sensor (yellow)
Rear left, view to trunk
Trunk, right
Trunk right
So... Car should be sealed. Unless someone ass-connected-hands did parking sensor installation and... wait for it... DID NOT SEALED FUCKING HOLE FROM OUTSIDE THE CAR TO INSIDE, BEATCH!
Sensors are in the bumper, control module - inside. To connect them they did a hole in a plastic cover, tightened up all 4 wires into one and put through it.
I asked one of dead cockroaches to help me demonstrate how they get inside.
There are marks also on back trim that also shows that it was a hole.
Left side has virgin plastic cover, right side with parking sensors - don't, look for dust patch.
I also sealed with silicon these holes just in case.
Undo all disassembling and voilà! No more cockroaches.
I also sprayed all the area with K2000 for sure.
What should I say? Fuck you Honda Israel for making me and my family live with this shit for a month. I got a new car for a lot of money and you don't bother to seal it with $1 silicon patch? 140,000 ILS ($40,000 or 30,000 EUR) is not enough to perform simple parking sensors installation? You buy cheap boxes for top $200, may be you should let Honda's factory to do that job? I don't know yet what's happening in servicing garages :-) Do you know how engine looks like after all?
This is how not to work on brand loyalty. For me now Honda driving experience will be associated with running around me cockroaches. I hope power-train issues will not occur for proven engine and transmission.
I owned Honda Civic Hybrid when worked at Cisco. It was great comfortable interior. The issue was with battery, it was saying full and in few moments empty. That was tricky to move such heavy car only with 1.3L engine and drawn battery. So I returned it even before lease period ends with money penalties and bought Skoda Fabia.
Also, all Israeli Hondas can have this issue. And not only Honda. Any local (Israel) intrusion in your brand new car with ass-connected hands and heads can have similar consequences. Yes! It's just me so lucky to have cockroaches in bushes on my parking. But you can stop or park near such nests eventually.
To check this case, you will need from 15 to 30 mins at home, not complicated. I can post instructions.
I don't know why Honda is so attractive to cockroaches. I did notice that spare wheel in a trunk have strong smell, may be it's connected...
Waiting for official Honda response.
Thank you, done for today.
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